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Round the Riverblands

We made it. After going back through all of Game of Thrones’s most reason season, Julie (the combined brain of Julia and Kylie) has reached the end point. Her 9th and final Season 6 retrospective, where she analyzes just one plotline of the Emmy-winning “outstanding drama” to truly appreciate the genius of showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss, along with their creative team (D&D). It’s been quite the journey.

What’s left? Why, that would be the action that takes place the land somewhere in between Winterhell and Horn Faire known as “the riverblands”. This retrospective is a little unique in that we will be following the journey of two characters whose arcs are disconnected, though geographically tied. You see, in the books, the riverlands themselves had quite a bit of significance, and especially in A Feast For Crows, they served to thematically link the seemingly disparate journeys of Brienne and Jaime. We have every bit of confidence that D&D’s penning of the riverblands, with a focus on Larry Lannister and The Canine, will have the same effect.

But wait, who is this “Larry” and why are we being such jerks about naming conventions? Well, in our long-standing fight against the conflation of Game of Thrones and A Song of Ice and Fire, we’ve adopted nicknames for the TV characters and locations. All explanations can be found in our Book Snob Glossary, but as a quick reference for these plotlines, here’s who you need to know:

Only Carol

Larry Lannister is…a bit of an idiot. A befuddled knight, if you will. Sure, we vaguely remember a time where he might have been on a journey that forced him to reflect on his internal vs. external honor, and we’re quite certain that losing his prized sword-hand was a significant part of that. But since Season 4 on, the only thing we can say with any certainty about Larry is that he loves Carol. He probably loves her because she explains confusing things to him, like that snake-in-a-box death threats are bad, and storming the sept in an attempt to kill everybody probably isn’t the world’s best idea.

Oh right, in case you missed it, before Larry set off on the heroic journey we’re about to describe, he spent the beginning half of Season 6 Larroling all over the place, trying to plot a coup to dispose of the head religious figure, because he was threatening Carol. Nobody puts Carol in a corner—or on trial.

But he failed at that. He failed so spectacularly that immediately following him storming the sept without bothering to secure his king first (or even check where his fellow kingsguard were), said king, a twelveish-year-old-boy whose defining characteristic is being easily manipulated, fired him from being the Lord Commander.

Aaaand, that’s where Julie is going to pick things up: the dramatic throne room strip tease.

This is just as effective as when Barry did the same in Season 1.

It’s possible, however, that Tommen was just being manipulated by Steve the Intern, since he randomly tells Larry to go hook up with Jaime’s A Feast for Crows plotline in the riverlands. Because guess what? Pop-up Blackfish has retaken Riverroundabout off-screen. At some point. After his pee break at the Red Wedding.

Tommen’s justification is that Larry was super rude to the gods, but Larry, being a great ally, immediately points out how it’s funny that he’s not being paraded naked through the streets of Carol’s Landing. Good point, Larry! That’s some sexist bullshit. You still have to go away, though.

We quickly cut to those riverblands, The Twins to be exact, where we see Walder Filch, the leader of the Floppy Hat Brigade. He’s yelling at his two soon-to-be-pie sons for letting Pop-up Blackfish retake Riverroundabout off-screen. We would too. How the fuck did this guy mount such an impressive military maneuver with nothing but the provisions he brought with him to a wedding? During a bathroom break.

Oh, did you think we were going to let that point go?

Also, we have no clue what the time-frame was of this magical victory, or why Filch seems to find out about it after Tommen, but whatever the logistics, the guy suddenly remembers that he has a Tully hostage! It’s Edmure! He looks like shit! Which makes sense, since he’s been in a dungeon for years. Years. In the background to add color, Filch’s terrified child-bride is just…on his lap looking terrified and child-like. We’re really happy this detail exists! And in the same episode as sassy Horn Faire dames asserting themselves! Normally, we’d point out this inconsistency in the world building, but it’s clearly an established Rule™ that Arya can only kill child rapists, so this makes a ton of sense. Well done, D&D.

Back in Carol’s Landing, Larry is in a room screaming at the top of his voice about the thing that Carol is going to go on trial for soon. Here’s a snippet:

Larry: I’m going to give Bronn the largest bag of gold anyone’s ever seen and have him gather the best killers he knows. I’ll take them to the sept and I’ll remove the High Sparrow’s head and every other sparrow head I can find.

Carol (reasonably): You can’t.

Larry (screaming): He has our son! He stole our son! He’s torn our family apart.

We weren’t kidding when we told you that Larry needs Carol. She talks him off this high-treason-shouting cliff a bit by saying, “jeeze dude, don’t worry—we can still punish our enemies.” But she also makes good points about how Larry can’t do much more to help her there, and how leading a Lannister army might come in handy at some point. She concludes by saying that they’re going to fuck up everyone else, and Larry is super turned on by this. They make out, and their slurps bleed into the next scene.

One episode and some indeterminate amount of time later, Larry and Bronn (it’s a Rule™ that the Bro-nns are a matched set) have arrived at Riverroundabout at the front of a long column of Lannister forces. This shouldn’t have taken a month and a half or anything. Wasn’t Carol’s trial in “days” when he left?

The siege looks like a mess, because the Floppy Hat Brigade is made of pure fail, although there is at least an attempt to do the whole three camps thing. Bronn, who is of course an expert on siege tactics, immediately points out the flaws and lack of trenches (is that the theme of this season?), and Larry says, “don’t worry, you’ll be in charge.” Why? Not that we’re against the social mobility of sellswords or anything, but why?

It’s also a Rule™ that Bronn must curse every other word. So that we know he’s plucky.

Larry: You have better instincts than any officer in the Lannister army.

Bronn: That’s like saying I have a bigger cock than anyone in the Unsullied army.

Oh wait, remember Lollys Stokeworth? Well she’s retconned or something, because Larry has to promise Bronn a whole new wife and castle to get him to do his job.

Don’t dwell on it too long, though, because we’re suddenly dropped into a fan-film of Jaime VI from A Feast for Crows.

No really, this is weird, guys. We mean, the context of Larry’s arrival is completely stupid, and it even has to be lampshaded as “you Floppy Hat kids are so shit that you let the Lannister army sneak up on you.” We are just two women foolish in the ways of war, but you’re telling us that no one turned their head at any point to see 8,000 soldiers approaching? Also, why didn’t the Lannisters tell the Floppy Hat Brigade they were coming? Was this a surprise party?

But ignoring that minor detail, the Floppy Hat Sonions are doing their best to bring Martin’s vision to life. They threaten to hang Edmure or slit his throat (there’s in-fighting so they can’t decide which one) in what is obviously an empty threat, and Pop-up Blackfish pops up on the battlements of Riverroundabout to roll his eyes and tell them to fuck off. Then Larry patiently explains why what they’re doing is idiotic (Carol’s rubbing off on him!) and takes charge of the army.

You don’t understand: if you just showed us this scene, free of any context, we’d be very pleased with its content as a truncated representation of one of our favorite chapters. No bullshit. But at the same time, we can’t imagine how this is landing for any TV-only viewer. We suppose Larry is enough of a blank-slate that they could just think, “oh huh, in this particular scene he happens to be funny and smart,” but are they finding it odd that an entire siege was retconned into existence, and an army warped there to bring us this moment?

Par for the course though, really.

Larry gets excited about this adaption, so he asks Bronn to set up a parlay with Pop-up Blackfish, with all his sellsword authority. Book snob Blackfish agrees, so he and Larry chat on a bridge about how stupid Larry is.

And again, we don’t know how to feel about this scene, because it’s quite good. Blackfish tosses Larry’s shit honor in his face, is pissed that he didn’t fulfill his oath to Cat to bring Arya and Sansa to safety, and also is quite open about the fact that he’s willing to die on this futile hill. Larry doesn’t really have any answers, since how do you convince a dude that just wants to fight, especially when none of the River Lords seem to exist, so the poor guy has no leverage. But we do get this rather lovely shot that is the most Oh! Larry moment we ever saw:

Hey, remember Brienne the Brute? She and Larry once had fun times with a bear together? Well, when we last saw her, Boss Ass Individual Brittany ordered her to go treat on her behalf with the Tully army, because and we quote, “you’ll know how to talk to him.” Not that it mattered with Jonny’s arbitrary battle timeline anyway.

The point is, Brienne, who feels duty-bound to protect Cat’s daughter(s), has arrived at Riverroundabout on this incredibly important diplomatic mission. And she gets scooped up by Lannister soldiers almost instantly, because Bronn has surely whipped the siege-line into shape. She asks to speak with Larry and everyone’s like, “aight.”

It’s the reunion we’ve all been wait for, guys…Pod and Bronn! Remember the fun times they had together, drinking or something? We’re pretty sure this happened, though not 100%. Don’t make us check. Bronn certainly remembers Pod’s sex life, so that’s something. Apparently his “magic cock” needs a mention, lest we let that continuity drop.

Bronn sort of launches into this…incredibly weird tirade about Pod’s sex life and Larry’s life, and does Pod think Brienne and Larry are fucking? And everyone wants to fuck Larry—it’s really upsetting how women look at him, and does he ship Brienne and Larry?

We’re NOT exaggerating. Pod, meanwhile, tries to casually laugh this off, though if you look closely, you can see Daniel Portman’s soul shattering.

Inside the tent, Larry and Brienne are not fucking. We’d be more upset about that if either of these two had a characterization beyond befuddlement and smashing things, respectively.

Instead, they’re talking about “politics,” apparently, which means just now discovering that they’re on opposite sides of the war. See, Larry is supes impressed that she fulfilled half their oath to Lady Cat, but then is like, “I just remembered Carol wants Sansa dead, so…” Brienne then tells Larry that she is there to treat with Pop-up Blackfish so that he can take the Tully forces to fight for Sansa in the North. She asks that Larry just…let them go, if she can convince him.

Let them go. To fight for the Starks. Who the Lannisters want dead. This checks out!

The best honeypot we can come up with is that Larry knows Carol is pissed at the Boltons, and wouldn’t mind if these two forces wiped each other out, or something to that effect. Though this level of strategy normally eludes Larry.

Whatever his reason (it’s never explained), he agrees to this terrible plan, because he might love Brienne or something. She also tries to return Oathkeeper to Larry, because one out of two Stark girls is enough, but he insists it’s hers. It matches her eyes.

Despite Brittany’s vote of confidence in Brienne, when we cut to her trying to convince Blackfish, not only does Brienne have no clue what to say to Blackfish, but she’s not even convincing enough to get him to stop pacing around and have a proper conversation with her. We guess there’s plenty of futzing for him to do since this is an action-packed siege.

“Sieges are dull.” —Blackfish, 6×07

She finally cajoles him into standing still long enough to read a letter that Brittany wrote, and it’s so moving that he says she’s “exactly like her mother.” For being literate? Or did she talk about how it’s her lot in life to wait for her men? Wait, that’s the books. Did she write about how she cursed her whole family to death by being awful?

Whatever she said, unfortunately being just like Cat doesn’t mean as much as it used to since Blackfish still wants to die on his dumb hill. That and he doesn’t trust the Lannisters and Floppy Hat Brigade to close their eyes, turn their backs, and pretend an entire Tully army isn’t marching North. Plus this is his home and junk.

Meanwhile, the fan-film of Jaime VI takes a turn for the fanfic. See, like the second half of the chapter, Edmure and Larry still chat in a tent, and it concludes with Larry threatening to hurl Edmure’s sonion at Riverroundabout via trebuchet catapult. But the logic for how Larry gets there is…unique.

As it turns out, the only thing that motivates him is his love for Carol. He loves her so much that he will do anything to be with her again, and everything he does is to achieve that aim. If he were to have a vision-board, it’d look something like this:

By the way, why is the Floppy Hat Brigade keeping Edmure alive if he has a fully-born sonion who can be Lord of Riverroundabout? Because in the books—forget it.

Edmure might be a book snob, or Tobias Menzies is really livid about having to act this shit out, because he’s like, thrashing against his restraints and banging his head against the tent pole. It’s not made better by the fact that Larry keeps likening Carol to Cat with the most superficial parallels we’ve ever heard. They both were mothers! They both didn’t want their kids dead!

Also, this might be the culminating moment of Larry’s arc this season: screaming how much he loves Carol. Which, in case you didn’t remember, was his culminating moment last year too. After all, we can’t choose whom we love. Even if we can choose whom we fuck and commit high treason with. Just sayin’.

Convinced that Larry really will do anything to get back to Carol, Edmure decides that it is best just to surrender Riverroundabout than to have his sonion murdered, along with all of the Tully men inside. Blackfish, seeing this obviously-compromised prisoner asking to be let in, tells the guards not to let him in, because, you know, he’s obviously compromised. However, a very conscientious Tully soldier, let’s call him Andrew, says that he has to let Edmure in since, “He’s my lord, my lord.” He’s very committed to the feudal order.

Edmure walks in and he and Blackfish exchange pissy looks for some reason. God forbid family members love each other and understand the difficult positions they’re both in. Edmure then marches up to an eager Andrew and tells him to surrender the castle to the Floppy Hat Brigade. We’re not sure what Andrew expected, but the dude is crushed. Talk about a breakdown of idealization.

Blackfish decides that he needs to save Brienne and Pod by showing them the way out of the castle, even though they were given permission by Larry to be there and don’t seem to be in any real danger. Brienne tries one more time to convince Blackfish to come with them and not die stupidly for, at this point, literally no reason. It wouldn’t even be like a hundred Lannisters fall for each Tully. The castle is breached because The Lord surrendered.

“Your family is in the North. Come with us. Don’t die for pride when you can fight for your blood.”

She really knows just what to say to him…to get him to suicide charge off-screen. Oh well, she tried.

We suppose it’s possible Pop-up Blackfish took out a hundred Lannisters, actually, since we didn’t see the damn fight. We’re just informed about it after the fact by a random guard who catches Larry standing on the battlements, staring into the middle-distance. Thinkin’ about Carol, of course. Somehow, despite it being pitch fucking black, he spots Brienne and Pod’s little rowboat. Even more miraculously, Brienne spots him and recognizes this shadowy lump as Larry. So she waves.


This is objectively ridiculous.

We know the sheer momentousness of this plotline is overwhelming, but don’t worry: we’re nearing the end. In “The Winds of Winter (fuck you)”, we cut to The Twins, where Walder Filch is throwing a ‘mission accomplished’ party. He happily chats up the alliance between the Lannisters and the Floppy Hat Brigade, though didn’t see fit to give Larry a seat on the dias. Awkward. His child-bride is missing too, but we’re less upset about that one.

Apparently the battle-cheer of this alliance is, “we send our regards!” This strikes us as…odd. It’s almost like it’s a phrase that has more meaning to the fandom than to in-verse characters and appropriating it sticks out.

Down in the cheap-seats, Arya Todd makes flirty eyes at Larry so that Bronn can go off on another tirade about how hot Larry is, and how he’s so jelly. Jelly of whom, Bronn? Larry or the ladies? Well, we get our answer when Larry, a good wingman, somehow negotiates a threesome for Bronn, and the guy goes (and we QUOTE), “Maybe I’m not in the mood.”

Are we fucked up for wanting Bronn to be in love with Larry because at least it would be something here?

Either way, he grudgingly fucks off (literally), so Walder Filch comes down from his high seat to bond with Larry. It’s actually not terrible, because he brings up the mutual kingslaying thing and it visibly upsets Larry. Like yeah, having Filch empathizing with you over something like that would call into question your life choices. It kind of reminds us that Larry used to be this character:

Walder Filch also goes on to talk about how he might lack in fighting prowess, since he’s old as balls, but he still manages to find a way to win his battles. And he’s right. What show is this?

Oh wait, it’s Game of Thrones, so rather than actually relating to anything in his arc, Larry just gets pissy with Filch and says that it was really the *Lannisters* who saved the day. “Why do we need you?” So once again:

Fast forward…some amount of time, and Larry and Bronn make it back to a still-smoking Carol’s Cheryl’s Landing! Larry rushes inside to find Carol Cheryl being coronated. By the Master of Whispers. Logically. He then gets this look on his face, and that’s the last we see of them for the season:

Is it angry? Or hungry? Could it be love?

Concerning Canines

Elsewhere in the riverblands…

Or are we in the riverblands? Because from what we can tell, we’re in land of Always Summer, with blooming fields and happy hobbits. We’re quite certain Tuckborough is only a short walk away.

See, these Shire Folk are not only happy and industrious, but they’re pious, working hard to raise a sept under the watchful eye of Septon ‘Ray’. This is his actual canon name, and we will repeat that fact many times. Ray bares a shocking resemblance to the rugged Ian McShane, who may or may not be pissed at his agent for this role. He shouts encouragements at his little hobbits, but with a bit of a grimace on his face.

Oh, by the way, this scene was a cold open for the episode “The Broken Man.” So, we hope you’re on the edge of your seats for what’s about to happen.

There is one merry worker who is not whistling! Instead, he’s carrying giant fucking logs all by himself. The camera does a swoopy thing, and it’s time for the Reveal of Extreme Significance: this dude is The Canine!!!!!

Guys, did that send shockwaves, or what? We mean, it’s The Canine. The person who ate chicken wings once. We’re just lucky that we had the credits to collect ourselves, because afterwards we pick back up in the same spot, only now Ray and The Canine have a chat.

The Canine chops wood, while Ray teases him for losing a fight to a woman. Drop in the bucket at this point.

Then we cut to the hobbits eating lunch. The Canine isn’t sitting with them, because he’s brooding or something. Ray decides to cheer him up by expositing about the details of how he didn’t die, which we’re quite certain The Canine knows anyway.

Oh and good news, he went to the Bronn School of Vocabulary:

Ray: No, there’s a reason you’re still here.

The Canine: Aye, there’s a reason. I’m a big fucker and I’m tough to kill.

Wow, D&D just earn those Emmys time after time.

Ray further exposits about how he’s the world’s worst septon, since he doesn’t know anything about the religion he’s supposed to be preaching. Like, he doesn’t even know the names of the gods, though there’s a chance he’s just stoned out of his mind on Shire leaf. It would also explain the pseudo-philosophical bullshit he spins about how he doesn’t need to know the names, man, because they’re all just part of one big story.

“Maybe it is the Seven. Or maybe it’s the old gods. Or maybe it’s the Lord of Light. Or maybe they’re all the same fucking thing. I don’t know.”

What he does know are the stories about how badass The Canine is. The Canine thinks the gods aren’t real because he should have been punished already, but Ray says that he was. That was inspiring!

Later that day, or maybe a month later because this is the episode where Larry warped to Riverroundabout and Brittany and Jonny took a bullet train through The North, Ray is preaching at the hobbits. He might have once read A Feast for Crows and got inspired by Septon Maribald’s famous “broken man” speech (hey, that’s the name of the episode!), but he’s gonna do the short, short version. Ian McShane sells it, because he’s Ian McShane. The gist? War sucks and can make you do things that don’t feel good, but there’s always a chance at redemption. Now that we think about it, it’s a lot more hopey-changey than Maribald’s speech, though Kara Danvers approves.

The Canine sits on the outskirts listening, looking…moved? Irritated? Hungry?

Well no time for eating, three random dudes on horseback materialize and demand horses/steel/food in exchange for their “protection.” Ray says “Seven save you, friends” as they depart, so at least he knows the number of gods. It’s something. He also invites them for dinner, but says that they don’t really have anything to give, and they’ve got hungry mouths too. The randos exchanged peeved looks, but turn to go with a pissy, “the night is dark and full of terrors.” This means that they are either part of the long-forgotten Brotherhood without Continuity, or maybe they’re the people that ditched Stannis who we never heard from again.

Actually, we don’t want to keep you in suspense: it’s the first option.

Once they leave, The Canine flies into a wood chopping rage, and begins cutting into a log TWICE as fast. Ray comes over and is like, “dude, it’s just tits and dragons, don’t worry about it.” Wait, sorry, that was Ian McShane, and it seems pretty obvious he’s not taking this seriously.

“I’m going to kill my agent after this.”

Ray is kind of chill about this too. He’s like, “what are we supposed to do? We’re just a bunch of hobbits.” The Canine wants Ray to fight, but he’s done fighting. Just like Jonny. Or Forest Whitaker in Rogue One. He also thinks that if you take minimal provisions to defend yourself, that spreads the disease of violence. It’s almost like he was written by people who have heard of passivism, but never actually talked to a pacifist. The Canine thinks this philosophy is stupid. We wonder who will be proven right…

Later, The Canine has progressed to chopping wood on the outskirts of the Shire, and he hears exactly one scream. He goes racing back to find Every. Single. Hobbit. Butchered. Wow, those guys are super efficient. For some reason, the thugs gave Ray a special treatment and hung him on the half-built sept. WHAT A SENSELESS AND CRUEL WORLD! The Canine looks really pissed, and the episodes ends with him picking up his axe and marching forward, a determined look on his face.

The next episode contains a scene that makes us feel actively dumber and more insecure about ourselves to discuss. Because we are two respectable, educated women. Why are we watching this shit? What is this? Who said this was okay?

Alright. Here we go.

There are four men sitting around, chatting. One of them looks like one of the thugs who asked for steel and horses from the hobbits. It could be two of them, but frankly we don’t know or care to check. The one dude we do recognize sticks his fingers up the ass of one of his traveling companions and says it “smells like pussy.” Then The Canine comes charging in out of nowhere and murders them all, disemboweling the dude that just committed the sexual assault (for laughs), though not before asking him where the “others” were.

Isn’t your life richer, having had that described?

Later, The Canine stumbles across an unexpected party in the middle of the riverbands. It’s Beric Dondarrion and Thoros of Myr! They think it’s Season 3 or something. They’ve caught three other dudes, who comprise the Bad Dudes from earlier, and are about to hang them. What a merry crew!

However, The Canine really bonded with Ray, we suppose, because he wants to revenge him. Beric and Thoros are like, “dude, we’re about to hang them,” but that’s not Manly™  enough for The Canine. He wants to chop them up with his axe. Is it possible…his arc is about his love of his axe? Because he’s always with it, and there were all those wood chopping scenes.

Thoros and Beric think he’s fucking weird, but agree to let him kick away the blocks of two of them. This takes at least a solid minute of negotiation. The Canine does as he’s told (good boy!), and while the hanging men are still twitching, rips the boots off one of them. Good boots are hard to come by.

Then he asks for something to eat. We cut to him enjoying a nice rabbit with the Brotherhood without Continuity. They ask if he likes it, setting up a punchline that references two seasons ago.

“I prefer chicken.” —The Canine, 6×08

Then he randomly gets up to piss (we guess it’s not random if he’s been drinking, but for a TV-show pissing is always a little random), so that D&D can pretend there’s nudity equality. Yes, giving us what we’ve always wanted: a blink-and-you-miss-it glimpse of a flaccid, urinating penis. This is almost as good as the warty dick shot.

The Brotherhood without Continuity tries to recruit The Canine by saying that they’re all here for a reason. He’s a good nihilist now though, and laughs at them. So instead, they convince him by saying that there’s a lot of fightin’ they’re going to be doing up north, and if he joins, he’ll help more than he’s harmed. The Canine agrees (we think), and we have literally no way of knowing if this is because he wants redemption or more fighting. Take your pick, because…

It’s over!!

The Things We Do For Love

Alright, time to break down…all that. We’re going to start with Larry Lannister, as is fitting of his rank.

We really wanted there to be meaning in Larry’s arc, even if it was sarcastic or absolutely unintended meaning. Like how Grey Worm and Missandei were doing everything they could to run the city, but this annoying drunken asshole kept interrupting them. These things at least have some entertainment value.

But for Larry, there just wasn’t meaning to be found. As far as we can tell, even in-universe, the entire thing was just an inconvenient plot cul de sac that he had to round so he could get back to Carol as fast as possible.

There was a minute where we thought this actually could be about getting Larry to challenge his own identity and place in the world. Blackfish talked about how unimpressive he was/how shit his honor was, and Larry seemed hurt. Or maybe Nikolaj Coster-Waldau was hurting himself trying to figure out what character to play. After that, Brienne comes along, and tries to point out to Larry how the side of the war he’s on isn’t right.

Brienne: The Tullys are rebels because they’re fighting for their home?

Larry: Riverrun was granted to the Freys by royal decree.

Brienne: As a reward for betraying Robb Stark and slaughtering his family.

Larry: Exactly. (Pause) We shouldn’t argue about politics.

Now, your mileage can definitely vary on how poorly you view the Lannister’s response to Robb declaring himself king, but the point is, Brienne was still challenging Larry’s place in the world at the head of the Lannister army. Especially since he aligned himself with the Floppy Hat Brigade, who are just impossible to like, between their incompetence and child-brides.

It all seemed like it was coming to a head during Larry’s scene with Edmure (who we’re still a little floored was given lines rather than being billed as an extra: that good ol’ Rickon treatment), since Edmure says:

“How do you live with yourself? All of us have to believe that we’re decent, don’t we? You have to sleep at night. How do you tell yourself that you’re decent after everything that you’ve done?”

This is a question worth addressing, because it’s supposedly getting at the internal conflict of this character. But the thing is, Larry responds to this, and thereby responds to everyone else, by being like, “Look. I love Carol. We don’t choose whom we love. And everything I do is to ensure that she’s safe and I can be with her. Period.”

Also, call us crazy, but the way it’s framed in the narrative is both perfectly reasonable, and as if we’re supposed to be on Larry’s side. D&D ship Larrol, from what we can tell, and really, no one has a counterpoint to this.

So pure.

What does this mean for Larry’s arc? Nothing! He spent all of last season learning that he should double-down on his love.  Which by the way, marks the fifth or sixth character (we might low-balling, honestly) whose arc in Season 6 was identical to Season 5.

There are only two scenes that don’t fit in with this. One comes at the very very end, where Larry sees Cheryl being crowned, and he looks disappointed. We think. Frankly, this could be one of those situations where the next season they have a completely different relationship. Remember at the end of Season 3 when he and Carol were basically in tears at his return, but then in the first episode of Season 4, she wanted nothing to do with him and was potentially hiding taking an abortifacient from him? Or the end of Season 4, where she choose Larry-chu and they had wild White Tower sex, but then at the start of Season 5 she was incredibly mad at him for…something? Letting Tywin die maybe, or releasing Tyrion? But then the episode after that she seemed all hurt that he wasn’t more of a father to her kids?

Our point is, as much as we adore Larrol, their relationship has a habit of adjusting to plot needs. So forgive us for not reading too much into one look that could have just as easily been hunger. The overarching story for Larry was that he loved Carol and wasn’t afraid to assert it as a strategic tactic. If Cheryl truly upsets him, then that had nothing to do with any self-discovery, especially contextualized by the first half of the season, where he seemed like he wanted very violent revenge. Maybe he was just miffed that she was crowned when the previous conventions had been male-preference-primogeniture, because that was kind of rude. They’re a regular Fernando and Isabel, we guess.

No one puts Larry in a corner. Though you’d think being such a great ally, he’d be okay with this.

There’s one other moment that we have to consider, which is Larry’s conversation with Walder Filch. It seemed like when Filch first brought up “hey, we’re both kingslayers,” Larry was really upset about being compared to this fucking asshole. Rightfully so; Larry’s kingslaying, remember, was one of the most honorable deeds he could have done. It’s just not viewed that way by the world, because no one understands what was at stake. Except Brienne. And apparently Carol and Saint Tyrion, too. But it’s something he closely guards, while also taking shit from everybody else about it. Of course it bothers him.

But, Larry counters what Filch says by just yelling about how much better the Lannister army is, and how this is actually his victory, cause he did all the hard work. By yelling about his love for Carol to Edmure, we guess. Then he storms off in a hissy fit.

If we’re being very, very generous, we could say that this was about him learning to accept his place at the head of the Lannister army now that he’s dismissed from the Kingsguard, and maybe putting Bronn in charge of trench-digging was showing this development of leadership too? But…is there even a ‘but’? Do we really have to pretend that this is a thing?

What boggles our mind is that they spent all this time and all these resources just to put this cul de sac in, and it didn’t even make sense. Larry being dismissed from the kingsguard was incredibly flippant, and that’s not even touching how illogical his entire rebellion against the Faith was which resulted in that decision. Just logistically, the fucking idiot didn’t pay attention to where the king was. No, we’re not over this. We won’t be over this any time soon, because this is not a reasonable level of stupidity. Even for Larry, this is simply not believable.

Add to this the fact that Blackfish had to have left the Red Wedding during a pee break, somehow made his way through the camp where everyone was being slaughtered, and then mustered the forces to take back a defensive stronghold off-screen, because that’s how important this was. And then, for some reason, the Freys didn’t know the Lannisters were coming to help them out, because how do alliances work anyway?

It’s one thing to retcon something small, but this was literally cramming a plot down our throats that we had no need for, and that accomplished nothing. Politically, Walder Filch is the Lord Paramount of the riverblands. This has been the case since the Red Wedding. As for the status of Riverroundabout, from what we can tell, Pop-up Blackfish took it back very recently, so it’s not like that amounted to anything either. Also, there were no other River Lords. They name dropped the Mallisters and the Blackwoods (they’ve risen against the Floppy Hat Brigade!), but we didn’t see them, nor these supposed rebellions. The only thing we saw were rogue members of the Brotherhood without Continuity slaughtering random hobbits in The Shire. But…how is this connected to anything?

Call us cynical, but we’re beginning to suspect that this whole thing was just a contrivance so that Larry could be out of Carol’s Landing for Chery’s Big Boom, and they actually put little to no thought into it at all.

Brienne, the Maid of FAIL

Speaking of being connected, Brienne was propped up as being very meaningful to Larry. We think. They exchanged that wave, after all.

Yes, you’d have to be a total dingus to read A Song of Ice and Fire and not find some significance in the Brienne/Jaime relationship. This is especially the case in A Feast for Crows, even though they don’t meet during the entirety of that novel. This is because they immaculately parallel each other, both on quests of identity through the riverlands, while also continually thinking about one another. The reader is able to see their influence on the other, particularly the way Brienne is shedding more and more of her idealism, while Jaime is almost taking on an increasingly romantic world-view. Ish. It’s complicated, and deep, and thematic. They both struggle with internal vs. external honor, gender expression, and how they see themselves fitting into a world that rejects them off-hand (Jaime with his disability, and Brienne eschewing traditional femininity).

For two-ish seasons, Brienne the Brute and Larry were pretty significant to each other, even if their characterizations were markedly different from their book counterparts from the start. We simply can’t imagine our Brienne shaming someone for sounding “like a bloody woman,” (or even saying the word ‘bloody’ in a non-literal context), because she rather admires other women and why the hell would that be an insult?

Still, there was the tub scene, and the time Larry gave her a sword to fulfil an oath (though they kind of screwed the pooch with Sansa trotting around in front of them for a couple of episodes), and it was clear that something was building between them. We don’t just mean romantic feels, either. We mean, we saw Larry confide in her about his most infamous act and his reasons behind it, and we saw Brienne becoming increasingly trusting of, and devoted to, him. We won’t pretend it was perfect, but it was, you know, nice.

Cue the rest of Season 4, and all of Season 5 and 6, where Larry’s entire character is devoted to his relationship to Carol, or at least, that’s framed as the most important piece of it. After all, the past two seasons were nothing but him learning to embrace how much he loves Carol, first to win the affection of an estranged daughter, and then to win a battle because Carol’s love solves all geopolitical issues.

Just as a quick aside, Larry should probably stop telling every single person he runs into how much he loves Carol. Cause like…high treason and shit. Not that there’s a legal system anyway.

Meanwhile, Brienne spent her past few seasons failing at everything.

No really, she is just made up of fail. We suppose she’s better at lighting a fire than Pod, so props there. Otherwise, she failed to convince Arya to even hear her out, only to then lose track of Arya completely (and failed to kill The Canine). She failed to convince Darth Sansa to let her into her service; she failed to pay attention to the stupid dinky candle when Sansa actually needed help. Then, mother-of-all-shocks…she failed at the one mission Sansa assigned to her this year. On occasion she’ll slaughter people at a convenient time, but otherwise, she is just utterly useless.

Larry seemed to think Brienne did an awesome job with Cat’s oath because she found Sansa, and at least could vaguely say, “Arya might not be dead.” And yeah, randomly stumbling upon these girls in a field and a bar was sure neato (and very proactive) of her. But at this point, what is she even doing? Does she still mean something to the audience, or has she gone the way of Davos, who just picks a side and makes remarks sometimes?

Come to think of it, what does she mean to Larry anymore? If it’s just like, “hey there’s that woman I hung out with for awhile and who gives me confused boners,” then sure, but contextualized by his EXTREME LOVE for Carol, her presence just doesn’t change anything. On her end, she might think he’s fuckable, or at least worthy of a goodbye wave, but…is this a romance? Is this any kind of relationship? Because from what we can tell, it was two characters who were on trajectories that they were both abruptly jettisoned from, only to faff about for two seasons and then get randomly slopped into a tent together. It was like D&D thought just sticking them in the same breathing space and having Bronn ship it would make this meaningful.

Are we supposed to think Brienne is what keeps Larry honest in the way he proceeded to negotiate the (mostly) bloodless surrender of Riverroundabout? Ya know, she’s a face on that side of the war and he doesn’t want to be as brutal or ruthless. Because by his own assertions, he just wants to do whatever’s the quickest route back to Carol. And even if that was supposed to be the case, isn’t this entire thing an exceedingly odd way for the writers to show us Brienne’s influence?

It’s not as though we don’t enjoy Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Gwendoline Christie making heart-eyes at one another (if that’s what they were doing), because at least it’s not parkour or fingers up the ass. But we just can’t find anything worthwhile to attach to these moments. Larry loves Carol. Brienne fails. What a story.

An Ode to Side-kicks

We are the kinds of people who when you ask us about the Tyrells in the books, we’ll get all smug and be like, “they exist for the benefit of the point-of-view characters, of course.” Which is not wrong. But it also means that we don’t usually take a ton of time to consider side-kick-esque characters outside of their relationships to the main character.

The thing is, Bronn doesn’t inform Larry’s character, because Larry doesn’t have a character. So instead, Bronn seems to be D&D’s attempt at comic relief. We mean, he grabs Pod’s dick and slaps him and says “fuck” a lot, and this is probably amusing to someone somewhere. He also rolls his eyes and cuts Larry off with a few more “fucks.”

At the same time, he’s a little bit infallible. We think he’s supposed to be like the everyman who is constantly ribbing these aristocrats for how out-of-touch they are (while also demanding two high born wives and castles). But D&D just kind of carry this folksy wisdom way too far.

Remember back in Season 5 when he was like, giving Larry relationship advice? And then this year, he apparently has “better instincts than any officer in the Lannister army.” First of all, there are officers? Second of all, why would this fucking sellsword have more military knowledge, particularly about siege warfare, than “officers” who probably studied this stuff, or at least read one book on it once. Hell, one of the maester chains is siegecraft, so you’d think the people benefitting from such an education system would have better instincts than the illiterate sellsword who got a job with the Lannisters by being plucky. And opportunistic. Single combat, fine, but he was tasked with overseeing the trenches.

It’s not like Bronn’s character especially matters, of course. He lightens the mood and then can sometimes act as a sounding board if Larry needs to state something obvious. We amuse ourselves with a reverse honeypot that Bronn is completely in love with Larry, because the number of times he brings up how hot he is, how jealous of all the women looking at him he is, and how he just might not be in the mood for a threesome raises a bit of suspicion. But, again, we know it’s only in our minds. That we’re talking to ourselves, and not to D&D[’s vision]. And although, we know that they are blind. Still we say…there’s a way this works.

Bronn loves him, but every day he’s learning. All his life he’s only been pretending

There’s even less to say about Pod, because we can’t reverse honeypot a story for him. We can’t even tie his magical cock into anything, since all that happens is Bronn grabs it. At best, “humorous” sexual assault against men is a theme of the riverblands. Pod is just kinda…there. We’re happy he’s learning how to be a better fighter from Brienne off-screen. Go Pod!

Is it worth talking about Blackfish? We called him “Pop-up” Blackfish for a reason. From what we remember, in Season 3 he was kinda a gruff jerk. He was the dude who shamed Edmure for missing a kind of difficult shot at his father’s funeral when he was grieving. There wasn’t anything overly bad about him, but he really just…existed. You could tell he had a military competence about him, it’s just that they didn’t really bother fleshing him out any.

In the books, we’re at least privy to Brynden Tully’s complicated relationship with his brother, his love for his nieces and nephew, and how his relationship with Lysa suggested that he wasn’t completely on-board with Hoster’s treatment of her. The fact that he refused to marry for twenty years gives the potential for interesting headcanons. Also, he didn’t have to take a castle off-page; he stayed behind at the Red Wedding, because Robb actually considered securing his rear.

We’re not sure why Blackfish came to the Red Wedding in the show, because we don’t really remember him doing anything of interest. Granted, we didn’t go back to watch, so if we’re missing something momentous, please tell us. Was he just along for the ride so he could keep sniping at Edmure?

But then to bring him back, just to have him die off-screen… This is Clive Russell, and he really did sell the role, we’re not going to lie. It would have, on some level, been quite satisfying to see him leave with Brienne, or maybe agree to bring his army to the Bastard Bowl. You know, it would have made us feel like families sort of care for each other, and are willing to make sacrifices if that means banding together in the long run.

However, that’s not what we got. We didn’t even get a nice moment between Edmure and Blackfish, though frankly it’s hard to blame Edmure given how much of an ass his uncle’s been to him in the past. Like, yeah, it’s a shitty situation, but it’s not as though Blackfish can’t wrap his mind around why Edmure might not want to die in this situation, or have his son and wife come to harm. And forgive us, but IN THE BOOKS, Edmure helps Blackfish escape and is super smug about it.

Look, there’s just nothing to say about Blackfish that hasn’t been said about this plotline as whole. We have no clue why it was brought back into existence, other than that they couldn’t think of what else to do with Larry and Brienne for a season. Or this is the Checklist Effect™ .

That’s not to say it’s completely a waste. You see there’s one character who has an arc. It’s in the course for two scenes, but it is development, damnit, and more meaningful than anything else in the riverblands.

We speak, of course, of Andrew, the committed Tully man-at-arms, who was so willing to stand by his Lord no matter what. He trusted in Edmure, damnit, so imagine his chagrin when the guy marches in and orders them to stand down.

We’re not sure how Andrew envisioned that going exactly. Did he just think the Floppy Hat Brigade was turning over a hostage for fun? Still, his commitment to the feudal order is honorable, and we’re so sorry that he had to see his idol’s fall from grace.

But his epic arc notwithstanding, there’s a reason we call this “Riverroundabout.”

What Kind of Nihilistic Bullshit is This?

This was the easiest subheading we’ve ever crafted, because it’s what Julia screamed as soon as she finished watching, and continued to do so to Kylie for a few good minutes afterwards. Expect great things from our podcast next week (including Julia breaking and running, like a broken man does).

We know we just recapped the events for you, but seriously, all The Canine did was chill in The Shire with Ian McShane telling him that the world was alright, only to watch some random dudes chop everyone up because the world is shit and you should feel bad. Then he went on a [humorous?] revenge rampage, got a new pair of boots, and received a job offer.

If we’re very, very generous, we can say that Beric’s remark about how it’s “not too late” for The Canine means that this ended on an optimistic note, with The Canine suddenly motivated by redemption. Except…this is exactly what Ray said, and then he died and was proven wrong. Also, there’s no suggestion that The Canine was compelled by the redemption angle so much as the fighting angle. Unless we count that two second look during Ray’s speech that might have been conveying interest. Or maybe hunger.

If he was trying to turn over a new leaf though, isn’t this a weird way to go about showing it? Like, we have The Canine wanting to chop up three men already sentenced to die by hanging, then bargaining for a solid minute so he can kick out the stump from as many of them as possible, and then he steals the boots out from under one of them while the guy is still twitching. We know it’s a small thing, but it’s deeply fucked up and so macabre, and from what we can tell, it’s to show how ruthless and hardened of a person he is. So…this is the guy who wants to do more good than harm? Are we sure about that?

Add to that the stupid inclusion of the chicken joke. There’s a reason we have this shirt in our store:

Your mileage will vary with how humorous you found the chicken joke in Season 4. But it’s symptomatic of a different issue. This whole thing feels as though D&D brought him back because he’s a goddamn meme, in the same way you can tell they write lines like “I drink and I know things” for Tyrion because they know people will make t-shirts of that. Or why they felt we needed an intricate explanation for the origins of “Hodor” to the point where it was framed as an all-important mystery for Bran to solve.

The truth is, as a character, The Canine is absolutely indistinguishable from the host of other hardened, humorous Badasses™ that D&D have written. Because seriously, Bronn and Fabio and Tormund and even the famous Lord Umber (Randyll’s bff) will curse at inappropriate moments, or say hard truths, or yeah, steal boots from men who are about to die (at least, we can see it happening). There’s nothing remotely interesting about The Canine that we can parse at this point in the series. He doesn’t seem to have a relationship with any character except potentially Arya, and a little bit with Beric. (They don’t like each other!)  But forgive us for not finding him cold-open worthy, especially when his plot can be summed up like, “now he’s walking in this direction.”

And for fuck sake, did we really need to see yet another instance of the writers setting up a scene where we’re expected to feel sympathy for someone, only to have the rug pulled out from under us so we can learn what a horrible place the world is. We already got that message with Rickon and Lady Crane and Osha and Fat Walda and Loras and Shireen and Hizdahr zo Sansa and Talisa and…we’re getting tired.

This one was so utterly transparent that it’s almost insulting. Or maybe humorous. We really can only laugh at the hobbits that were given no personality or motivation or anything, because they were just happy lambs being set up for the slaughter.

What even was this place? We know it’s The Shire, but what is this community if people in a perfectly temperate field who do nothing but build a church and skip around the maypole. Where do they sleep? Where do they hunt/grow this food that they’re eating? Did Ray find them, or was he a community organizer? Are they super isolated and that’s why he doesn’t know the names of the gods?

Also, and this is such a stupid point, it doesn’t even make sense that The Canine missed the entire slaughter. The dude was chopping wood barely on the outskirts and he hears one measly scream. Then, after rushing back, everyone is hacked to pieces, Ray is strung up, and things are like…overturned with food scattered everywhere, yet the ruffians have already fucked off. It doesn’t even look like it was ransacked properly, which was the point of the attack, wasn’t it? They wanted steel or horses or food, didn’t they? Or did they just want to chop up a bunch of heretics?

We’re more thorough with our looting in Skyrim…

Look. In the books (we know), the Brotherhood without Banners doesn’t do anything to people who follow the Faith. They sulk at meals when someone says grace, but Julia just did that at her mom’s Easter table, so…

Yes, we guess randomly bringing in the Brave Companions or the Mountain men could have confused the Unsullied, but we have no clue what anyone’s motivation in this entire plotline is. People are horrible and you should feel bad. Robin Hood’s merry men can sometimes splinter off and go on murder benders. Neato.

We’d immaculately detail Sandor Clegane’s fate in the books and how that relates to Jaime and Brienne’s respective journeys, but this bullshit with The Canine has nothing to do with it. It has nothing to do with anything. It’s not better or worse than anything, because it’s nothing.

It took up screen time. Same with Riverroundabout. Same with Horn Faire, and Arya having her Season 5 plotline again, and Saint Tyrion rehashing the conflicts Deadpan faced, and the four High Grandpa speeches that were all the same, and Carol being put upon episode after episode until some random homicide, and Ramsay being super evhul, and so and so.

That’s the theme of season: wasting screen time. If D&D only wanted 8 episodes, they could have just told us. Jeeze. Clearly, this means the shortened Season 7 is going to be a rollicking success. We can’t wait.

Editor’s note 4/18/17: a correction was made in which Larry had originally been referred to as the “first-born.”

If you enjoyed Julie’s thoughts on this plotline, then be sure to check out the Game of Thrones/A Song of Ice and Fire podcast starring Julia and Kylie, Unabashed Book Snobbery! You can subscribe/listen on iTunes, subscribe to our RSS feed, search for “Unabashed Book Snobbery” in any podcast app, or find a complete list of UBS episodes on Kylie’s personal blog. The riverblands episode is available here.

Images courtesy of HBO



Kylie is a Managing Editor at The Fandomentals on a mission to slay all the tropes. She has a penchant for complex familial dynamics and is easily pleased when authors include in-depth business details.


Julia is a Managing Editor at The Fandomentals with far too many hobbies and complex emotions. She may or may not be an actual Martell.

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Voted Thanks!
  • Ангелина (Angelina)

    Oh, that Ray… remember how all were lamenting lack of diversity in depiction of religious people (namely, they were all mindless zealots)? So, D&D shoved up our throat their view of a good religious person. Seems one should barely know his own faith and be all-accepting like ‘ah, all gods are true, bro’ hippie, be demure and all-pacifist and die senselessly. Being religious myself, I’m really insulted.

    • Elsa

      I’m an atheist who has a rather negative opinion about religions and even I find the portrayal of religious people on the show insulting.

      • Ангелина (Angelina)

        That just means they managed to achieve that special kind of bad that doesn’t depend on one’s personal view of the world. But I was almost ok with the usual sinister fanatic stuff (it’s unavoidable now, isn’t it?) until they decided to correct their mistake and created that special breed of unbearable stupidity…
        …The same as always, though. Once, they decided to correct their blatant sexism… or homophobia…

        • Elsa

          Yeah I think the sexisim of Season 6 was nearly more dangerous than the sexisim of Season 5. The sexisim of Season 5 was blatantly obvious, but the sexism of Season 6 was a bit harder to spot for people who aren’t that informed about the issue. Enough people thought that Season 6 was feminist. Same with the the way they’ve changed there portrayl of homosexual or religious characters. It was easier to see in previous season how the show portryed these charaters in a bad way.

          • Ангелина (Angelina)

            And what’s the worst, I really believe that D&D thought they were correcting their mistakes. I mean, that is what D&D in all honesty think to be good, or feminist, or LGBT-friendly portrayal. They didn’t just throw a bone to critics, they… ah, worked on those questions. They even ruined logic of several plots (like Porne) to ‘improve’ the show.
            I feel somehow uncomfortable with the depth of their delusion – but then I see people who think just that way, too. And that’s frankly alarming. So many people all round the world are buying into their crap.

          • Cynical Classicist

            People religious and non-religious can come together and agree that this show is terrible.

          • D&D have brought us together! We should give them a nobel peace prize.

          • Cynical Classicist

            So like the slimy squid of Watchmen? Although mayhaps I shouldn’t encourage the idea that there should be constant enmity between the religious and non-religious, as bad as Bracken and Blackwood, Percy and Neville, Guelph and Ghibelline… I’m going off on such a tangent. Main point, we are united on this front. We can all be united as people who like good media.

    • Barbara Kateřina

      Yeah, it’s particularly irritating because I think he’s meant to portray my kind of religious figure – you know, the liberal, pluralist sort of priest of a vaguely Catholic-like (or Christianity-like, at any rate) religion. I’m the supposed target audience.

      My supposed perfect religious figure is an idiot who’s clearly stoned.

      If this is how they see it, I do kind of get why they’re so anti-religious, but seriously…

      • Ангелина (Angelina)

        I’d like that kind of a religious person, too. Btw, it was perfectly portrayed in BBC Father Brown series, where they did manage to let father Brown stay Catholic despite being fairly pluralistic and liberal. But this mockery was clearly also a sort of lesson for us (a target audience): that’s what you like, now you know its worth.

        • Barbara Kateřina

          Well one of the reasons it’s so frustrating is because we already are, in the conservative circles, considered not really believers. So depicting characters like septon Ray just confirms all of their prejudices…as well as displaying the fate they often wish on us (as expressed frequently in online discussions – “if you love the immigrants so much, I wish they’d come and kill your family, then we’ll see what you’ll think, you bloody idealist”). Because these people really needed another confirmation of their biases in the current political climate. Lovely.

          • Ангелина (Angelina)

            That’s it. And I’d insist the harm the D&D inflict is quite real, as the promote certain worldview and make it sound not what it is (disgusting bigotry), but a fairly advanced, progressive, (insert what you’d want)-friendly ideology. They wrap the old crap in the new paper and sell it as a good-for-all food, thus re-evaluating what was long ago condemned.

            Like, for the religious people in whole, in fact, they propose a Morton’s fork: either you are evhul fanatics and therefore should be killed for being harmful, or you are peaceful sheep and therefore should be killed for not being able to harm anyone. A good thought, I heard it before from Lenin and his communist friends…

          • Barbara Kateřina

            Right. Or we can always convert to the one objective truth – I guess in DnD’s case it’s not atheistic materialism, but atheistic/agnostic nihilism. Yay?

          • Cynical Classicist

            So is this show basically like the really offensive stereotype that non-religious people are nihilists who advocate a violent worldview, a sort of Marquis De Sade idea of the world? Having Sansa say she doesn’t pray and apparently she’s now a player in LF’s… confusing plan and has embraced violence. Because that’s really not what the books are about. The world is violent and has horrible stuff but giving into the violence isn’t the option you should take.

            Also it’s downright anachronistic that so many characters throw off religion in what is basically a Medieval society, and yet we can still have a significant religious movement… wait, apparently the Sparrows are only a few fanatics… but why did Cersei put them in if they were so… I’m trying to honeypot and just getting more confused.

          • Barbara Kateřina

            Non-religious people are *realists*, you see – they use violence when it’s necessary – like, say, Sansa letting Ramsay be torn apart by his own dogs. Religious people, by contrast, are either excessively violent fanatics, or excessively pacifist fools. Only the non-religious know the golden middle way of “we only torture the bad guys!”

          • Cynical Classicist

            So taking the violent option is justified if one group does it but not another. Got you.

    • Ruw

      Oh yes, their total failure to portray religion as anything but Super Bad is incredible. And I’m saying it as an atheist (or at least agnostic). Here they at least had the chance to demonstrate how amidst war people find hope and refuge in religion and then they go and botcher even that… because no, see, Ray might pose as religious, but he’s actually really cool and doesn’t care about gods. Seriously…

      • Ангелина (Angelina)

        Ah, but I found the name of religion that Ray preaches! It should be Ietsism!

        • Barbara Kateřina

          In a wonderful case of irony, the Czech version of this term (něcismus) is propagated – and the approach studied and criticized – by our most famous liberal, pluralist priest. I’m confused now. So would he and septon Ray be best friends, or not? DnD, help me!

          • Ангелина (Angelina)

            Is it Tomas Halik? As I once found that word in his works.

          • Barbara Kateřina

            Yep, it’s him. The phenomenon is one of the main focuses of his work, and I think one of the reasons he got the Templeton prize.
            (Also, I’m really impressed you know him!)

          • Ангелина (Angelina)

            His work ‘Patience With God’ was translated into Russian, though I don’t know if it was official translation, and was somewhat essential in my spiritual life. He is anyway quite known among both Orthodox and Catholic liberals here)

          • Barbara Kateřina

            That’s great to hear – it’s often hard to assess how famous our famous people actually are abroad, prizes notwithstanding. He was one of my teachers, and still teaches part-time in our department.

        • Cynical Classicist

          Well, thx for opening my mind to that.

    • It’s a Brutal™ world and if only Ray had been a good nihilist he coulda been alright. But nah, the moron said violence is a disease that gets spread, so basic self-defense is out of the question.

      What’s frustrating is that Ray is supposed to be the counter-point to the (cartoonish) Faith Militant, and yet the message is that they’re just going to die.

      • Ангелина (Angelina)

        And the problem is: how did it happen that they couldn’t see the implications of their narrative?
        I mean, if Ray is stoopid and has to die, then violence is the only option, then… well, the whole bulk of consequences… ah. How could I, it seems the word ‘consequence’ is taboo in D&D office, as no action in their show demands reaction, as no thought demands a train of thought.

        And they think themselves to be super progressive. So above those silly superstitions.

    • The_Void

      They’re not even content with displaying religious people as either insane nutjobs or meaningless hippies. They also erase the religious devotion of almost every major book character.

      Book Davos: *is a follower of the Seven who draws strength from the Mother after his near-death experience*
      Show Davos: “Fuck the gods”

      • Ангелина (Angelina)

        Yeah. JRRM may be atheist/agnostic (afaik), but he understands that the relationship between a person and religion are far more complex than ‘religion makes you evhul/stupid’. It may drive you crazy, but it may sustain you on the verge of losing sanity. It may motivate you for evil, but it may motivate you for good. It depends both on the sort of religion and the sort of a person.

        D&D let only stoopid women have their religion. Tough and wise men are better than this, for them.

  • SlayerNina Friki

    Larrol larroling… This should be added to an Oxford dictionary forever. Also, lol at the Shire and the happy hobbits.

    Shipping BronnxJaime forever. Rogue Lion?

    • AWwww that’s the perfect ship name. They’re very well-suited. Bronn can help Larry dig trenches while they both wheel spin!

  • Martha Boatright

    Ah, the RIverlands, a.k.a. what should have been the plot of season 5. When people say they’d “run out of plot” in the show, I usually bring up this and the Iron Islands as plot arcs that should have already been adapted (I try to avoid Lady Stoneheart because I’m not spoiling the books for people as I try to convince them to read them).

    Even with some of their nonsense decisions in earlier seasons, Jaime still could’ve been sent out to take care of Riverrun – Bronn alone could’ve been the “in” for Dorne, though you’d have to stretch for why he was sent. Brienne could still have wound up running into the Brotherhood while searching for Sansa and had conflicts with them or even decide to help them fight the Freys or some invented story. And the Hound’s survival could’ve been hinted at, with him choosing to stay with a religious group because he’d finally found people who accepted him and who he wanted to protect.

    But yeah, who needs Jaime trying to follow in his father’s footsteps in the wake of his death and realizing that being his dad makes him feel sick to his stomach? His entire motivation is Cersei, nobody else! Who needs Brienne struggling with honor? Just have her ditch her duties to get revenge for her teenage crush, only to also fulfill her duty easily later! Who needs Sandor Clegane ever finding something to believe in? He’s more badass when he’s cynical!

    Ngl, I was hoping that this season might give a few hints as to the fallout of Brienne and Jaime’s cliffhanger in aDwD, no Stoneheart but maybe there could’ve been some other constructed conflict with the Brotherhood. Then I watch and nope, they don’t even care about adapting the books properly anymore. 🙁

    • Cynical Classicist

      They can’t have Stoneheart, showing Ramsay is evil is way more important to the storyline, as are scenes showing that Tyrion is a Saint, and other things we established last season… and the season before that.

    • I still can’t believe they passed on Stoneheart. Apparently *that’s* beneath them. Much better to have Dondarrion just spring up out of a hole in the ground.

      • Cynical Classicist

        After vanishing for two seasons. No mention of continued resistance, because who cares about image politics and the villains’ continued atrocities leading to growing discontent against them?

  • Elsa

    Thanks for all the wonderful recaps. I’m looking forward to the next podcast.
    This season really had a lot of wasted screentime. Earlier seasons also had useless scenes like the beetle speech or all the brothel scenes, but I never had the feeling that an entire storyline was useless. This was back in my showlover days, so maybe I would see things differently if I were to re-watch seasons 1-4 now.

    I didn’t expect much for Larry before Season 6 aired. I gave up on him back in Season 4. Which is a shame because Jaime Lannister is one of my favourite characters in the books and I think Nicolai Coster Waldau has been perfectly cast. Maybe he doesn’t look 100% like some people envisioned Jaime and he’s a bit older than the character is in the books, but I think he’s a really good actor. His portrayl of Jaime from Seasons 1-3 caputured the role really well and I think the bathtub scene was one of the best acted scenes on the show. He’s still trying to do what he can with the material he’s given, but I wish he could actually get to play the Jaime we see in AFFC and ADWD. I think there’s acutally an interview in which he says that he has no real clue was this look between Larry and Cheryl is supposed to mean.

    I forgot about the Freys not noticing the Lannister army. Is this also a theme of this season? Ramsay didn’t notice that the KotV took Moat Cailin and marched through the entire North? No one in Meereen noticed Daenerys and the Dothraki arriving, so they were ambushed as well.. Seems like not using scouts is really a new trend.

    Anyway.. I’m going to re-read A Song of Ice and Fire now, so I can get the show version of some events out of my head and won’t confuse book-cannon with show-cannon anymore.

    • Mytly

      Nope, the earlier seasons were really pretty good – it’s not just a showlover lens. Or at least, they were pretty decent – they definitely had their flaws, but the really egregious stuff didn’t turn up until late season 4 or so.

      Oh, nobody notices entire armies sneaking up on them in GoT – it’s not just this season. Remember Dany not noticing an entire Dothraki horde – several thousand riders – not approaching until they were almost on top of her, back in the last episode of season 5?

    • Maidens&Mules

      It’s too bad they don’t let Nicolaj Coster-Waldau play Jaime Lannister anymore. He was good the first three seasons.

    • NCW could have been the best Jaime, if they were interested in adapting Jaime at all. I just don’t understand the extreme Larry loves Carol narrative. Why do they want everyone to love her? The marketing tells us she’s a bad guy, doesn’t it?

      A theme of the season is *definitely* surprise armies. Don’t forget Tyrion not seeing the slavers’ attack coming.

  • Drafee

    The honeypot here is that they were trying to go the book route with that Jaime/Edmure scene, cause Jaime makes this ” oh well, of course” face after Edmure lashes out at him, so he switches tactics and starts projecting the “sisterfucker with no moral qualms” persona to scare him into relenting.

    Of course, this would have have more merit if Larry hadn’t spent three seasons proclaiming his undying love for Carol, cause after all that his speech felt completely genuine.

    Fuck anyone who isn’t us. Blergh.

    (Also, minor detail. Jaime was born second, right? “Holding her foot” and all)

    • Mytly

      Yes, Jaime was born second. But who knows about Larry? Not to mention, it’s hardly likely to be consistent within the show itself. I don’t recall whether D&D ever brought up Larry and Carol’s birth order, but if they did, then I’d bet any amount of money that the next time it is mentioned, the birth order will be the other way around. If Carol can forget how many kids she gave birth to, then there’s no reason to expect that anything in this universe is self-consistent.

      • Either way, the formerly established male-preference primogeniture means that the Iron Throne is… uh. Neither of theirs. Cheryl is enterprising, yo.

        • Drafee

          WOMEN ON TOP!!!!!

          • Mytly

            Except in Winterhell, where it’s BASTARDS ON TOP!!!!

          • Cynical Classicist

            Who cares about laws, we have shocks!

          • “I don’t care that he’s a bastard.” Okay then.

        • Cynical Classicist

          Why even bother with laws, Renly looks nice so he’s ahead of Stannis. It’s not like a point was trying to be made about how there’s more to being ruler then just looking good. I’m sure that Renly’s vain, selfish nature that becomes apparent in private wasn’t at all important to the story. Stannis is evil, as shown by the scary music, he’s just as bad as all the others, we should oppose him even when he’s fighting Joffrey and the Boltons who the series constantly shows are evil.

    • Ah you’re right! A correction was made. We knew Larry should have been next-in-line, but we sort of brain-farted as to why.

      What’s really really weird about the Edmure scene is how many times Larry brings up Cat. Because like, he’s trying to compare brotherly love, I guess, but he bangs his sister. So…

  • Ruw

    Wow guys, you did it. Congrats and waiting for the podcast!

    The thing that really cracks me up about this whole deal with Edmure and Riverrun is that the show-onlies understandable reaction to the DRAMATIC REVEAL of Edmure was: “Eh, who’s that?”. Same goes for Blackfish and Riverrun as a setting. People were mostly confused about what that was and why they should care, and have probably forgotten all about it already. Hell, I almost forgot this was in the show as well.

    When it comes to the Hound’s adventure in the Shire… holy shit, how can professional and rather accomplished writers suck this much at writing anything interesting and well-rounded themselves? I mean, this season was a clusterfuck, but even then you can still easily detect which storylines were somewhat inspired by the book and which they’ve written completely freestyle. Like this one. So uninspired, so cliche and so heavy-handed, everyone and their mother knew the Shire was doomed five seconds in. Just… how?

    • Mytly

      IKR? It’s like the writers are deliberately trying to write as badly as possible just to see what their viewers will swallow without question. Or maybe they’re competing in some TV version of the Bulwer-Lytton contest. Or, as turtle-paced’s recaps put it last week, maybe they’re writing examples for a ‘How not to write a TV show’ book.

    • Suou no Nioi

      It is weird how disdainful D&D are of the books while still relying on book readers and book knowledge to inform their piss poor writing. I can’t imagine trying to follow this show without any book knowledge whatsoever.

    • It’s a little hard to remember Blackfish from previous seasons. He was the rugged dude who was slightly mean to Edmure, but he wasn’t fleshed out at all. He could easily be mushed together with the Lords of Moderate Important that traipsed around with Robb. I can’t imagine Riverrun being taken back off screen meaning anything either.

      Re: the Shire, the world is bad and you should feel bad. Isn’t it refreshing?

  • Mikhail Gan

    I don’t remember since it was some time ago (and possibly because my mind has made an effort to forget) but they said that Riverrun had actually fallen into Frey hands but it was retaken by the Blackfish? Goodness.

    • Cynical Classicist

      Well this is a show where 20 good men can destroy an army, why care about logistics?

      • Mikhail Gan

        It seems like I really did wipe everything from my memory.

      • He knew the castle better than they did ¯_(ツ)_/¯

        • Piggy saBinring

          LOL! Yet Sansa and Jon can’t figure out a secret back door into Winterfell and actually use their guerrilla fighters (ie. the 2000 wildlings making up the bulk of their army) in a setting that is most effective for their battle tactics and least effective for their opposition. Nope, that would make sense and not create a cashed-up CGI spectacle that “looked cool”. As well as, you know, not adding to the gratuitous body count for the season.

    • They did indeed!

      Filch:You’ve lost it?

      Black Walder: Yes, Father.

      Filch: It’s a castle, not a bloody sheep. Presumably you still know where it is. You didn’t lose Riverrun. You let the Blackfish take it from you. He surprised us. He knows the castle better than anyone. You did lose the Blackfish after the Red Wedding. You had him right here in this hall and you let him leave. Then when I told you to hunt him down and kill him, you couldn’t find him. That’s what it means to lose something. Now he’s come back and taken Riverrun.

  • Cynical Classicist

    We could have just had Brienne go on her RL arc and it would have been way better then having her sit round the North for ages then murder the rightful King with the sword of the man who died for trying to put them on the throne.

    Anyway the portrayal of religious characters is poor. GRRM may not be religious and there may be holes in the worldbuilding of religions, but he does give a diverse show of religious people. U get people like the High Sparrow, taking basis from heretical movements but with a theocratic view which is harmful. And u get people like Meribald who are flawed but decent and follow a good worldview, going round and helping people. But apparently being nice is stupid. It won’t get you anywhere.

    You even see that with Bronn acting as if Pod is an idiot because he was able to attack them from behind, because honorable fighting is stupid. What was the point there? How is anybody supposed to act if they are attacked from behind? But the writers think Bronn is awesome and right about everything and so on and so forth.

    Also… the Blackwoods are awesome and why did we cut them out? The pacing is so awful, lots of good material cut out and replaced with slow, bad material.

    • The point of Bronn is always humor. And it’s getting more and more tired every episode.

      The Blackwoods weren’t cut…They’re rebelling! Filch said it once so it must be true!

      • Cynical Classicist

        Ah, rebelling. We had time for those long dialogues and not time for the Blackwoods. So that didn’t really go anywhere. Nothing about the themes of false peaces that clearly won’t last, and continued resentment towards the Lannisters because of all the wrongs they have brought about. More humor from Bronn and more Saintliness from Tyrion.

        Turtle-Paced has begun on S6 and… yeh, she’s right, the pacing is awful and drags, like butter scraped over too much bread.

      • Maidens&Mules

        D&D and company can’t write humour. It is known. They also don’t do well at acknowledging their shortcomings, hence their pointed refusal to adapt any of the humour from ASoIaF.

        • You know who’s genuinely funny and would mean a lot more to Larry than Bronn? Genna.

          • Maidens&Mules

            Yes, we need Aunt Genna. Jaime’s FeastDance arc is full of him having positive interactions with people, from comforting Tommen, to mentoring Loras, to his almost fatherly relationship with his squires and Pia, to his conversations with his surviving family. These positive interactions provide a nice contrast with Cersei, who seems to see everyone as either her enemy or her lackey and worthy only of contempt in either case. Jaime seems to see Genna as almost a mother figure and I don’t think it’s by accident that he dreams of his actual mother after speaking with her, finally coming to terms with his new reality, and ending things with Cersei for good by burning her letter. I think D&D were trying to channel some of this with Larry’s heartfelt conversation with Myrcella, but it doesn’t really work. I don’t think he has a positive conversation with anyone in Season 6. Including Carol/Cheryl.

    • WanderingUndine

      “Being nice is stupid” sums up one of GoT’s major themes.

  • Hyrkoon

    I’m not even going to consider the themes and character relationships at this point, but man, did I forget what a logistical nightmare this is…

    I suppose the honeypot is that the Blackfish scoured the Riverlands for other pro-Tully lords, but re-taking Riverrun and pretending it was just like it’d never been taken in the first place… this just really, really shows how they don’t care about anything.

    And just. Brienne. How does one think that even if Riverrun will be taken, they’ll be able to defend themselves against a Lannister invasion so well that they’ll be able to send troops to the North to help Sansa in time… and how does the writing portray the Blackfish as being selfish for having a logical battle plan…

    • Another honeypot might be that he tunneled into Riverroundabout the same way he helped Brienne and Pod escape, and then somehow…took it? Without killing the Frey sons? I really don’t even have a guess.

      To be fair to Brienne, she didn’t want to go, but Brittany insisted.

      • Cynical Classicist

        He had 20 good men… or he found LF’s teleporter… or he was helped by the fact the Riverlands didn’t exist for a season.

        • They were very good men.

          • Cynical Classicist

            He just needed one bad script.

  • Maidens&Mules

    I think Riverrun is the only time GoT actually decided to make things more complicated than they were in the books. It wasn’t enough to just have the Blackfish stay at Riverrun as he does in the books, or return there after the longest piss break ever. No, he had to recapture Riverrun after the Freys got it (how did they get it? Was there yet another siege? Did Robb Stark just leave it un-garrisoned?). Off screen of course. With an army that apparently no longer exists.

    It’s funny. From Seasons 1-3, Jaime was the best adapted of the main book characters. From Season 4 on, he’s among the worst. As in AGoT and ACoK, he only shows up for a handful of scenes in Seasons 1 & 2, but he makes a big impact in each appearance. His speech to Catelyn about vows is also one of the few times that they changed a passage from the books for the better. Jaime’s Season 3 arc is some of their finest writing. There are minor quibbles to be had (leaving out the Brave Companions meant there was no element of irony in Jaime getting his hand cut off, Brienne calling Jaime a woman rather than a craven, to name a couple) but overall it’s a pretty good adaptation. I especially like the bath scene at Harrenhal. IMO, it beats of The Red Wedding and Dracarys as the best scene from Season 3. Once Jaime returned to Kings Landing, he hasn’t really had a story arc at all. Rather than struggling to reinvent himself, he just sort of hangs out in Kings Landing until Cersei sends him off on some side quest. He’s not particularly offensive or problematic, he’s just boring as hell.

    I’m not sure what the appeal of Bronn is supposed to be. In the books, he’s just a sellsword in Tyrion’s employ who Cersei later bribes not to stand for Tyrion in a trial by battle. Nothing really wrong with him, but he’s not a particularly deep or interesting character. They gave him a bigger role in the show, but they didn’t really add anything to his character to make him more interesting. It’s especially galling when you consider how many more important characters in the books who didn’t make it into the show.

    • Cynical Classicist

      Agreed. Bronn is off in his own story having taken control of Stokeworth. He’s not really needed now. And it shows. There are so many relatively minor characters that could have been useful. Justin Massey shows not all R’hllor worshipers are fanatics. Rolland Storm is a badass and faithful to the Seven even though he’s very loyal to Stannis, further showing the diversity of religious people, rather then the show where the religious are fanatics or Hobbits who get killed in one episode. Rodrik Harlaw is a welcome change to the usual thuggish pirates of the Ironborn. So many great characters.

      • Maidens&Mules

        They seem to decide who to give bigger roles to based on which actors they like rather than which characters would make sense. Hence Tywin in Harrenhal instead of Roose Bolton. Hence bigger roles for Jorah, Daario, and Tyrion in Meereen and a reduced role for Barristan and no Shavepate or Quentyn. Hence Ellaria (with a 180 personality change) and the Sand Snakes instead of Arianne and Doran. Hence Ros’ entire existence. And so on. I get wanting to restrict the size of the cast in a live action show but shoehorning in characters where their presence makes no sense is not the way to do it.

    • What’s really mind-boggling is that they could have just had Blackfish stay back, but I think they brought him along just to like…have him make snippy comments to Edmure? I’m still not sure.

      • Piggy saBinring

        And make crass jokes/witticisms comparing Walder Filch with poop. Damn… your naming convention is rubbing off on me. 😛

  • Maidens&Mules

    Random thought: book!Jaime is a blank page. He believes he has lost everything he had or thought he had and now seeks to forge a new identity. Show!Jaime is also a blank page post season 4. As in a literal blank sheet of paper. Probably one that’s been out in the rain all day and has turned to mush.

  • Rhodan

    BTW, there is also one obvious continuity blunder in Jaime´s storyline. When Blackfish starts to talk with him, he asks “Did you return to your imprisonment?” I know this could be in general sense, but it´s obviously writer forgotting that Jaime was never in Riverrun on the show.

    • Piggy saBinring

      I’m certain the writers intended it to be “return to captivity” in the sense of being held by Stark loyalists, rather than at Riverrun specifically. D&D have an ongoing problem of treating the audience as completely stupid/forgetful as the characters they’re adapting (or was that mutilating?).

      • Rhodan

        It can be used in both ways…But after all, this is a book quote, which truely refered to Riverrun specifically.

  • Will113

    Oh well at least Nikolaj Waldau and Gwendoline Christie, got a paycheck. Shame about the failure to explore the consequences of war, introspection of one’s self and one’s place in the world.I’m sure they can’t have been that interesting. Much better to send the character’s off on a zany journey to an exotic locale, and to stare at a tower. Then you can breeze through it.

  • Ariella Kahan-Harth

    The problem with the show is that they simplify all the themes and misunderstand them. GRRM doesn’t say that being nice is bad (just look at Sansa); he points out that you can be a nice person, but you also must be wise to the situation around you. Also, I utterly despise what they did with Sandor. They turned a broken man with an awful case of PTSD and many other mental issues into what many in the books perceive him as: a ruthless killing machine. Sandor is far from my favorite character, but he deserves better. In addition, it just me or is there much more cursing in Weiseroff than there is in Westeros? GRRM has characters curse, but not to the point where they’re saying some variation of “fuck” in every sentence. And really, why did they include the scene of the one man sticking his fingers up another man’s anus? Not only does it make fun of male sexual assault, it’s JUST NOT FUNNY. Lastly, I am infuriated that they shortened the broken man speech to “war is bad.” The speech is beautiful and they ought to have used it in its entirety.