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“Swooning Romances” Get Scrutinized on The Fandomentalist

Gretchen, Julia, and Kylie welcome Jana to chat about the that famous bodice-ripping romance in Pride and Prejudice without a hint of sarcasm. Though their thoughts on Lapidot are a good deal more earnest.

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Episode breakdown:

  • 0:00 – Introduction & fandom news
  • 14:25 – What’s the deal with Pride and Prejudice?
  • 36:45 – Adaptation Maxism #2
  • 49:10 – Let’s talk Lapis Lazuli and Peridot

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Kylie

Kylie

Kylie is a Managing Editor at The Fandomentals on a mission to slay all the tropes. She has a penchant for complex familial dynamics and is easily pleased when authors include in-depth business details.
Kylie
Julia

Julia

Julia is a Managing Editor at The Fandomentals with far too many hobbies and complex emotions. She may or may not be an actual Martell.
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Jana

Jana should be studying for her law degree right now. She prefers to obsess over pop culture instead.
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Gretchen

Bi, she/her. Gretchen is an unabashed nerdy fangirl and aspiring sci/fi and fantasy author. She has opinions about things like media, representation, and fandom. She serves as a Managing Editor for The Fandomentals.
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  • Anemone071

    Amedot for life
    Amethyst give peridot suggestive looks in catch and release while holding a whip
    Rebecca Sugar has said that pushing someone out of danger like what steven did for connie in bubble buddies is “an outrageously romantic gesture.
    Too far and bubble buddies has similar scenes when stevonnie and amedot look almost note for note.
    When rose falls for greg her pupils turn to stars, in too far amethyst eyes turn to stars when peridot is about to tell jokes.
    it’s implied that amethyst and peridot spend a lot of time with each other offscreen, so much so that peridot starts using amethyst manner of speech.
    amethyst looks the most hurt when steven thought peridot was going to betray them
    In too short to ride amethyst is working the hardest to make peridot happy. There’s a line that says “we don’t like you for what you could be, we like you,” then the shot was placed on peridot so we don’t see amy’s face while she says it.
    While i don’t mind lapidot lapis needs friends more than she needs romance. She just got out of a destructive abusive toxic relationship, and the show has only been through one year in the timeline of the show, currently in winter and lapis has only been free from jasper for at least an autumn and free from her 5000 year imprisonment since the start of summer.
    Also, just because two lesbians are living together doesn’t mean they’re dating. They’re barnmates.
    In the new crystal gems while lapis and peridot do have fun and get along simple disagreement can turn to childish fights between them.

    • I suspect we’ll just have to agree to disagree in some cases. I can see how what you’re describing makes for a compelling romantic arc, but that’s just not how it’s resonating with me. There’s certainly nothing wrong with Amedot if they go in that direction, but we did want to take a bit of time to chat Lapidot and its positives and shortcomings.

      As Gretchen promised on the podcast, we’re going to have a piece up in a few hours that takes a very close look at their mutual healing arc and the off-screen beats. Whether what she describes makes for a compelling romance is of course personal, but at the least, we wanted to touch on why their interplay resonates with us.

    • As Kylie pointed out, we’re not at all against Amedot. I can see why this ship is compelling for you, as Amethyst and Peridot have some great moments together and perhaps that can be a subject for an upcoming segment at some point, especially if we get more moments of them on screen to build up on. Recently, the show has been giving Lapis and Peridot a background arc of healing and friendship, so that’s why we wanted to touch on those dynamics. Especially since it is an arc that’s been hit or miss for people.

      I do have a piece up as of now about the Lapis and Peridot healing arc. I don’t actually go into a discussion of romance at all. It’s more a defense of their journey to becoming healthy persons and friends given the criticism it has received. And you may be hit or miss on that, too, which is totally fair. And whether or not either Lapidot or Amedot will become a romantic arc is still up in the air as of now. It’ll be fun to see what happens no matter what!

      I happen to like the childish fight, weirdly enough. It showcases how far Lapis has healed. She would never have been able to have a fight like this without breaking down when we first saw her after Malachite! 🙂

  • Gabriella M

    I have to disagree with Jana about Lizzie rejecting two marriage proposals being selfish. The family’s financial and later social situation falls squarely on Mr. Bennet for the reasons you all mentioned in the podcast and also because he refused to be in anyway responsible for his family, instead just waiting for things to be sorted out by someone else. Jane and Lizzie have pretty much been running damage control for their family while he just snarks about his wife and younger daughters. He doesn’t heed Lizzie’s well reasoned argument against Lydia going to Brighton, brushing it off as Lizzie probably having hurt feels over losing a suitor and that Lydia will be fine once she gets her officer fancy out of her system at Brighton. He only becomes active once Lydia runs off but it was too little too late by then. Mr. Bennet is just as irresponsible as his wife just in a different manner and he’s not called out on it by the narrative as much as Mrs. Bennet.

    • Jana Wolf

      Oh, oh no, I’m not saying Mr. Bennet isn’t entirely to blame for the situation being as dire as it is. In fact, I point out that Emma’s situation in her book is so much better because her father took better care of that stuff.

      That doesn’t change the fact that Lizzie receives two marriage proposals – one that would have eventually given her the house they all lived in and created a connection making Mr. Collins a lot less likely to throw out any spinster daughter or widow still living in there once Mr. Bennet passed away, and the other coming with basically all of the money. Either of those would have solved her family’s problems more or less immediately, at the detriment to Lizzie’s personal happiness.

      And she gets to make that choice and it is framed as the right one, as opposed to the narratives that came up later and demanded that all female characters always make the most self-sacrificing choices possible so they’re pure and good and selfless and perfect human beings, which I also said is something positive.

  • Farah

    Did you see Lauren Zuke’s recent tumblr post about how she personally interprets Lapis and Peridot’s dynamic to be of a queer relationship and wanted to add a bit of representation there? It kinda started another wave (albeit smaller) within the shipping fandom. I mean it’s not inherently bad (since queer subtext within a storyboarder’s work was what kickstarted Bubbline) but I believe it wasn’t done as well as it could be?

    Also the Peridot shipping wars are a weird ongoing event for me because while I think she’s an interesting character, I really can’t connect with her like I do with Amethyst or even Lapis. I think I’ll get a more favorable view on the shipping involved once the Crewniverse gives us a recovering Lapis fleshed out with people aside Peridot and Steven. Garnet and Peridot had a surprising but amazing dynamic so I’m wondering if Lapis can have that experience with someone. But until then, I’ll be in my tiny tugboat of Lapis x Amethyst.

    • I have a piece up today about Lapis and Peridot’s healing arc, if you’re interested. I don’t touch on the queer ship nature of it with Zuke like I had planned to (it was already long enough, lol), but I can see what you mean. I’m hoping that since their arcs aren’t complete yet, we will get more and fleshed out tones to that dynamic if that is the way the show wants to go. I’d be interested to hear what didn’t work for you with what Zuke did with Lapidot!

      Okay, now I need more Lapis/Amethyst interactions. I will gladly join you with Lapis x Amethyst because now I’m imagining all the amazing interaction they could have!

  • Bo

    Yep, all us Fandomentalists are small. Checking in at 5’6″ here. I’m not much of a movie person either, so every year I feel terribly guilty when I have no idea what the movies nominated for Oscars are. I don’t end up watching any of them, though.

    I’m no shipper, or particularly invested in any aspect of it with SU besides Connie and Steven, but people are currently going WAY overboard to criticize Lapidot. What happened with Lauren Zuke was really messed up. For some reason the SU fandom treats many people harshly.

    I think the fact that SU is so good for representation often plays against it, because many people who feel represented by the show start turning on it because it does not do what they want. And it’s sad, because fans have stopped judging the episodes for what happened. They judge only based on what they wanted to happen. It creates an unfair standard.

    I like Lapidot. They have a lot in common, they share similar experiences, and they are learning about Earth together. Yes, I want to see more of it and I definitely want Peridot’s role in Lapis’s imprisonment to come up again. I’m not going to sit here and complain about those who do not like Lapidot. I just wish people didn’t attack the crew over what they want rather than what is there.

    • The dominance of shipping and ship wars in fandom discussions of media (esp in media with good wlw representation) bothers me quite a bit. I’ve had more than one conversation with other editors about how quickly fans turn on really great shows for not catering to shipping desires. LGBT+ representation is more than ships! I mean, I love ships. I’m a proud shipper, and a multi-shipper at that (I have so many ships, and of all kinds), but stories are more than ships.

      • Bo

        Very true, and this is something I’ve seen with every cartoon fandom I’ve been involved in, whether the ships were wlw or not. Maybe because cartoon plots and characters are taken less seriously than other shows, but people really attach to ships. The Legend of Korra fandom spent the entire final season seemingly on the edge, waiting to see the end ships before deciding whether to shout or praise.

        Which, I get it, and I know many of us would argue the eventual Korrasami result was so great for reasons having to do with plot and characters, but we all saw the split in the aftermath.

        It’s really unfortunate to see how SU fans increasingly judge the show based on what they want instead of what the Crewniverse gives them. Not just with shipping, either. For example, there’s a small but very vocal group of SU fans who desperately want Jasper to become a Crystal Gem and get an arc where she becomes this super loving buff cheeto mom, and they hate every second it doesn’t happen. And if the Crewniverse doesn’t ever go that route with her, they will genuinely hate the show for it.

  • Fyodor

    Austenland is great fun and hugely underrated – a must-see for Austen fans. Jane’s (Keri Russell’s) turn at the piano had me in tears.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6B7KXzx3a8

    Be sure to watch through the end credits.

    • Katie

      Keri Russel and Gaius Baltar!?!

      • Fyodor

        And Bret (“Brit”) McKenzie. And Jane Mutha Uckin’ Seymour.

        Just to square the Twilight circle, Stephenie Meyer (yes, that one) was one of the producers – loved the book, apparently. This movie’s a gem.

  • Katie

    It blew my mind to learn that the woman who wrote Jessica Jones also wrote the Twilight scripts. We all contain multitudes.

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